So. I, uh, sort of accidentally went on a DATE. With a GUY.
I know. I know I know I KNOW, okay? I have no business dating, for a wide variety of reasons up to and including the possibility that I am MOVING OUT OF THE STATE. We won't even get INTO the various and sundry other ways I am unprepared.
But. He tricked me! It was a classic bait-and-switch! We met in a work-y setting, and he took my card and invited me to lunch, and I was all "Sure! I have not dated in SEVEN YEARS and am mildly oblivious to begin with, so I am in no way sensing your intentions! It's just lunch!".
But THEN, at the end of the week, he kicked it up a notch, all, "Aaaactually, can you go to dinner on Saturday night instead?"
*RECORD SCREECHING NOISE*
Ruh roh. Even *I* am not dumb enough to think THAT shit's not a Real Date. But I had already said yes to lunch! Nervous tummy! WHAT TO DO?
So anyway. That happened. The good news, if any, is that this broaches two topics requiring your expert analysis! I suffer and YOU ALL SUFFER!
Topic the first: Let the Bible Belt come and save my souuuuull!
During one of my very first email exchanges with this guy, he asked me to pray for an important meeting he was going into. And when I told him where I lived (safety first! GAWD I suck at this), he mentioned that it was near his church. Now. Many of you are having a good cringe just thinking of that, and believe me, I FEEL YOU. But, here's the thing I've learned living in Texas: you can't judge someone's awesomeness based solely on their outward churchiness. You cannot even judge their ACTUAL churchiness based on their outward churchiness. There are...cultural factors at work here that us Yankees don't experience. Holy HELL this is sounding judgemental. It's just...hard to explain, and I'm doing a shitty job. Help me out here, bible-belters! AM I RIGHT?
Anyway. I will say that he is actually a totally normal, cool guy, as far as I can tell. Cusses, drinks like a fish, used to be in a band, etc. My question to you is this: would you discount a guy who mentioned religion (in any context, pro or con) early on? Why or why not?
Topic the second: The Rules
At the end of the date, which was at a fairly low-key place, the bill came to $42 for the two of us. The guy (WHO NEEDS A NAME OMG)(NOT THAT ONE MICHELE) jokes that I owe him $2, because he and his friends have a rule that they never spend more than $40 on a first date.
Alrighty! First of all, why $40? It seems like if you're fussy enough to create a RULE, you might as well round up to $50! I mean, they make a special BILL for this purpose, and everything!
Second of all, what do you think of a guy who has "rules"? Is this some kind of...early fussiness indicator light?
No really, I WANT TO KNOW. I don't ask you guys for much, DAMN!
Anyway. He's a nice guy. We are NOT NOT NOT dating though. Because this guy is hot, and I don't date hot guys. (ANYMORE).
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OK, if a guy talks about religion, no problem. If he asks me to pray for him, and it's not because he's on the brink of death (or possibly even if it were), that would be it for me.
The $40 rule is a bit strange, but sounds like it could easily be a bunch of guys sitting around chatting about dating and trying to decide what the perfect price point is so that you don't come across as cheap or flashy, or something. That wouldn't make me rule him out.
Religion: in any context? Well, it is such a touchy sensitive subject, that I would be loathe to mention it myself out of respect for other people's beliefs and the idea that there is a damn good chance we are going to disagree, which is cool. But I have respect for other people's philosophies. I find that folks who are less inhibited in this subject area tend to think that they are right and everyone else is more or less wrong. (Just my opinion. No one crucify me.) Or he could be putting on the whole "I'm a safe good guy blah blah blah prayer blah Jesus, etc." to lower your guard in order to score. What? It could happen.
Also: Money Rule? And telling you about rule? Totally uncool/definite early fussiness indicator.
1. God, no. Heh.
2. It was probably a joke. Geez.
Hmmm...if he was joking about the praying thing, like "I'm going to get my butt chewed during this meeting, pray for me!" that would be fine. Otherwise, until you know each other better, it makes me nervous. There's absolutely nothing wrong at all with being religious, but when that's the first thing out of someone's mouth, it makes me wonder.
The $40 rule? That's kind of weird he told you about it, unless he was really nervous and was just making a joke. I mean, maybe he is nervous. He did the whole "work lunch" route to see what you'd say first, right?
I hear you on the Southern Actual churchiness vs Outward churchiness. It's hard to explain, but I think you handled it well!
If he did the pray for me thing as a joke, I don't think it's an issue. If he in all seriousness wanted you to pray for him over a meeting, then that's a little odd.
I think the $40 rule was funny. Just a joke to make conversation on a first date. Nerves can make a person say crazy things, right?
So if you're NOT NOT dating, why worry about such things? :) That coming from the most over-thinker in the world!
True about not being able to judge churchiness here in the South...but I would think it was odd if someone I recently met asked me to pray for them, especially about something like a meeting. I know I shouldn't judge what someone else deems important to throw up to the prayer Gods but still.
The $40 rule, eh, I don't think that's odd...probably just trying to be funny.
Besides, you said he cusses, drinks AND used to be in a band....SCORE!!!
The whole pray for me thing would make me nervous, but maybe, like P&D said, it was just a turn of phrase and not the real deal. Then again he just mentioned church too, so he's being rather presumptuous that you are the praying type too. He sounds fishy to me, especially with the $40 dollar rule. What kind of crap is that? It smacks of cheap more than fussy.
Topic the First: major problem. I've found that really only people who are ACTUALLY churchy mention it in emails and/or early conversations. I'm also fussy in this area in that someone saying "pray for me" while not knowing my religion is making all sorts of assumptions that I don't appreciate. Plus it wasn't ONE mention, it was TWO.
Topic the Second: eh. Sounds obnoxious, but was probably just a joke. I probably wouldn't have noticed from all the alarm bells sounding over Topic the First.
P&D stole my answer. See her comment above.
Maybe I'm just a overthinking nitwit (likely), but the second one would actually have made me feel super awk. Like, oh, should I have been offering to go halvesies? Is he annoyed at me for ordering the fish? Etc etc.
Re: Asking you to pray for him because of a tough meeting--I would have given him $2.
Re: The rule about not spending over $40 on a first date--I would have bent my head and prayed for him right there at the table.
The pray for me thing would make me leery, but I'm a Yankee who has lived in Yankee territory my entire life and the only time I've ever been asked to pray for someone is when they are literally dying (or at Mass in highschool when I had to go to Mass). It's hard for me to evaluate the pray thing in the Bible-belt context.
The $40 thing is also hard because it sounds kind of assy, but if it sounded like he was trying to make a joke, I'd say give it a pass. I can't even remember half of the idiotic things I've probably said on first dates.
Oh I used to love first dates; the akwardness, the butterflies, the what to wear dilema!
The religion thing wouldn't bother me, and it doesn't seem to bother you. So, maybe a non-issue?
At first I was like a $40 rule, WTF?! but then I thought about it and decided 1. he's comfortable to joke about it with you, so prolly no big deal. and 2. in my experience guys that want to spend a whole bunch of money on a first date are usually weird and want to take things to fast.
I'm glad he's a nice guy & hot!
I LOVE THESE COMMENTS.
Ok, in the interest of science, I'm going to have to ask you guys to identify yourselves as a Yankee or Southerner when you give your opinion on the churchiness.
The Yanks are just going to have to TRUST ME when I say it's really not all that weird. Especially since he is from a tiny town in West TX, like Friday Night Lights-style.
Also, I think I should be clear that if he IS, in fact, churchy, that doesn't bother me.
I know what you mean about the churchiness in the midwest/bible belt not being all it seems to be, but anyone who mentions church and praying up front is a non-starter for me, but I'm a heathen. But the comment about owing him $2 is just fucking tacky because you DON'T MENTION MONEY on a date! It indicates he actually is keeping track how much money he spent on you which means all sorts of bad thing. PUNT THIS GUY NOW. I have spoken.
so AS A NORTHERNER, the "pray for me" thing wigs me RIGHT the hell out. i don't pray for people.
however, the $$ thing? TOTALLY not an issue for me. i would have taken it as a joke, 100%. sounds like what jess said, he and his buddies were sitting around joking about dates and came up with this "rule" as something funny. i mean, he didn't make you give him $2 (uh, right?). i would NOT punt him for it.
Religion talk - it all depends on where you live. When I was single, I lived in Ohio. If a guy brought up religion early on, I assumed we weren't going to get along well. I now live in TN which is bible belt country. If I was dating here (not - happily married and hope to NEVER EVER date again), I wouldn't discount him on religious talk.
The $2 and rule thing...I would let him have a pass once for this. It might be a funny rule between him and his buddies that is one of those "had to be there" kind of things and he just got comfortable and over shared. If money and rules become a theme? Run.
I totally get what you are saying about the Bible belt thing. People in Texas are just weird about church, there's this whole hypocrisy thing going on surrounding it too. Sort of, "I'm really only Christian on Sunday's when I sit in the pew, but will reference it ad naseum all throughout the week to make myself seem a good person" Err, that sounds judgmental, but ah, well I'll stop there.
The $40 limit? Freak.
I would take the $40 thing as a joke, but be on the lookout for other "fussy" factors.
As for church, I've lived in both Texas and Alabama and you simply can't really tell much about a person just because they mention church. Around here, almost EVERYBODY mentions church and says, "Pray for me."
I definitely think he was joking/making awk conversation about the $40 thing, but I ALSO think it is...based on a true story, if that makes sense.
He did spend another $80 (!!!)(TRUE FUCKING STORY) on our bar tab later at another location, so I don't think he adheres TOO closely to The Rule. Unless he was just embarassed and overcompensating.
Also, I lived in a little town in West Texas for 12 years. Maybe I know him. haha
can we discuss the level of hotness?
IE: has your hotness indicator changed since you dated last? would he have been hot before or is any guy without some weird physical things going on now hot based on some sort of defense mechnanism?
also, as a southerner (you did ask us to state this, right??) since the guy drank alcohol in a BAR his initial pray thing may have been to test YOUR churchiness out NOT him indicating his ... ?!?!?!?!?!
I have a certain level of Religion Aversion going on (EIGHT YEARS OF CHRISTIAN SCHOOL OMG) so the "pray for me" would be all it would take for me to completely write him off. If he has a church he refers to as "his," FORGET IT FORGET IT FORGET IT. On the other hand, I totally BELIEVE you that there could be a cultural situation that would change my opinion on this. My grandparents, for example, were all prayish and churchy, and yet I don't think they applied it at all to their ACTUAL LIVES. It was more like...a social convention. Something a good citizen would do.
Too soon to call the $40 thing. It sounds much more like the kind of awk thing someone says when referring to an In Joke to someone not In on it. The explanation could be something like how ATM machines only give $20s or whatevs. On the other hand, I'm a bit of a fusser myself, so it's likely I'm identifying with the guy rather than evaluating him.
But he's hot? AND he has a POLICY for first dates, because he and his buddies go on so many of them? Hm. Back away, sister.
He's definitely hot. Not Settling Hot, but Hard-to-Argue Hot. Particularly for his age (37).
I'm a Yank and I say that it very well could be that the church/pray for me talk comes off extremely well with a certain section of the population where you live. In other words, he may have been, you know, trying to make a good impression. Heh.
I wouldn't think TOO much of the $40. thing, especially because he wasn't really, uh, FOLLOWING the rule.
lmao.
The $40 rule is kind of funny.
I would have TOTALLY never given him a chance with the whole pray for me thing. But I am a total godless whore who happens to be a Yankee.
Unless it was sarcasm.
OK, how about Church HOTTIE for a name??
would you discount a guy who mentioned religion (in any context, pro or con) early on? Why or why not?
Depends how- if he'd mentioned praying for him for a work meeting in an email, HELL YES I would consider that a con. Come ON. Work? Prayers? Email? This guy is CERTIFIED.
Second thing... the $2 loan = lame way to make a joke, is what I'm thinking. But also that's sorta on the cheap side for a dinner date in this day and age.
Not that any of this matters, because you will be leaving the state in the near future. Chalk it up to practice dating.
Speaking from the dang heart of the Bible Belt -- SC born and bred -- I'd say the fact he both drinks and cusses makes the churchy-thing moot. In my opinion, the churchy-thing is only problematic when it's tied closely with judgy -- which he doesn't appear to be.
As for the 40 bucks -- I see it as a joke. Maybe inappropriate for a first date but funnier sitting around a year later in a "haha listen to Joe Blow and I used to think! Weren't we fools?" sort of way. I'd cut him some slack.
Coming back to identify myself as a Yankee Heathen living in the Northern Bible Belt.
Wait. He's 37. He and his friends have dating rules that include a spending limit. Either:
1. his friends are all much younger than him (like in college); or
2. there is some kind of relationship phobia/inherent problem (cheapskates?) in his group of friends.
Either way, cause for pause.
The pray for me thing? Odd where I'm from, but not necessarily a deal-breaker.
I grew up in SC, and anyone talking all churchy-like and/or asking me to pray for them makes me UNCOMFORTABLE. That said, from the Bible Belt viewpoint, outward churchiness has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with actual churchiness, and the hotness factor MIGHT persuade me to pretend the asking to pray thing NEVER HAPPENED. Also, since you are moving, what better time to relax the not dating hot guys rule?
The $40 thing? Aaaahhhh, tacky joke. Maybe he was nervous, though, and since date night, he has been going over and over that stupid comment in his head while banging his forehead against his keyboard. Because if *I* had made that comment, it's what I would be doing.
Maybe the "pray for me" thing was a figure of speech, and I get that the churchy thing is a cultural thing down there. It is social, and sometimes not religious at all.
But, I'd keep an ear open. It is fine to be religious, but it is only fine to date a religious dude if you, too, are religious. (I think. Otherwise, so. many. complications.)
The rule thing? I think he was just nervous, had some ridiculous conversation with friends and the $42 bill brought it to mind. He is probably kicking himself for having said anything, is my bet.
I say, nothing too freaky. Yet.
I've got no problem with the religion reference. It shows that he is comfortable in his beliefs.
The $42 thing? Problem. Don't talk money on a first date. "Ooh - Look how much I'm spending on you."
However, I would give him another chance if I were you and you were dating him...Which you're not. Obviously.
I'm southern, and the "pray for me / near my church thing" WOULD have made me think, oh, he's too churchy. But, I'm the kind of person who would have immediately asked, "oh, do you go to church regularly? what kind of church is it?" etc. Mostly based on my inability to put up with anti-gay bigotry. There are cool churches, and there are not-cool churches.
But my biggest peeve is when someone says grace in a restaurant. Did he do THAT? Definitely an indicator of above-average churchiness.
I would chalk the occasional "pray for me" up to Bible Belt everyday conversation. That stuff's even creeping up to Iowa.
And I think he's probably kicking himself for the $40 rule/joke that didn't work. But then I'm generally way too easy on people.
The "pray for me" gets thrown around down here so much, that I don't think you can use it as a real indicator of the churchiness level. And since you have dated guys all along the spectrum (Fun fact friday #15!) I don't think you have anything to worry about right now.
The $40 rule on its own is fine...it sounds like he was just trying to make a joke that came out all wrong. If he keeps saying stuff like that, then maybe that is some extreme fussiness, but it doesn't sound like that's the case at all.
Both of those things do sound a little weird. But... the hotness factor (even though you have something against hot guys) does make up for a whole host of sins. Just keep your radar out for any other weirdness from this guy (even though you're totally NOT DATING!). Ha.
As an agnostic Yankee in England, I have to say any mention of prayer, particularly from a near-stranger, pisses me right off. Judgemental or not, I can't imagine that someone who gets all churchy on me right away would be keen on my sense of humour. I mean, I know some funny jokes about stuff you never joke about. Churchy folk don't appreciate shit like that. Hence, hot or not, I would personally be inclined to find a godless, misguided soul like myself to not date.
Please date more. If only for us.
The problem I have with the 2 religion comments is either: 1) he is actual churchy, which means you would have to be churchy to some degree. 2) he is not churchy, just saying these things to impress you or put you at ease, in which case he is playing an angle instead of being himself. Of course, I am sure I have played angles before to impress a girl...
I would not worry about the $40 joke. It was an attempt at humor, and depending on how he delivered it could have been successful. Now, if he would have made the total $41, and asked you for 1 dollar...that would have been 100% funny.
Also, got to give him props on successfully pulling off the bait & switch. That is not always easy to do.
Being a Christian myself (though hopefully NOT churchy, if you know what I mean,) it wouldn't exactly FREAK me out, but it would come off WEIRD to just throw it out there like that. In my experience, you don't make assumptions that someone prays, so unless I know the person really well, I would never just request that they pray for me. But like you said, that could just be more of an expression down south. I am yankee, so I couldn't relate. Even though it's a small town and a relatively religious area of the Midwest, people here definitely don't just assume that a new acquaintence is open to, eh, God talk. You handle with care in that area.
The money thing I would probably assume to be a joke. And hopefully not a CURRENT one, because, $40? Couldn't buy you dinner and a movie.
As a Southerner, the "pray for me" and "my church" would not freak me out. I would wait and see how he actually behaves. From your description, he doesn't sound churchy at all. I wouldn't worry about that one. And the $40 thing sounds like some stupid boy joke that he and his friends came up with. I'd ignore it, too. But then, I'm pretty easygoing.
OMG Hilarious! Overt religion - esp. if the person doesn't really know anything about me - i.e. what if I'm not the praying type and my measely attempt does more harm than good? (I would suspect) - turns me off, but being in texas, I get your cultural caveats. If the person then showed me he can cuss and drink I think I would be okay with it.
The $40 thing just seems like a lame joke...
Please date more, as it's highly entertaining. For us, I mean. Maybe not so much for you.
Just chiming in to say OMG you HAVE to tell us about every date/not date because this whole discussion is PURE GOLD. I LOVE it. Especially since I have not gone on a date in seventeen years and am totally vicariously living it up.
Also, because of aforesaid 17 years of datelessness, I have absolutely nothing to add to this beautiful discussion of churchiness vs. not churchiness vs. playing an angle or the $2 thing.
First, as a Texan, I am assuming he is also, the religion talk prior to an actual date gave me a nervous tummy. Yes we throw "pray for me" or "I'll keep you in my prayers" around a LOT, but his throwing prayers and info on where he worships would have turned me off right away and I would have made an excuse not to go out.
Second, the $2 was most likely a smart ass joke, but it set a bad precedent and makes him come off as a tight-ass even though he spent $80 later. At the age of 37, he should have already figured out that not only do you not discuss money on a date, you don't even share the total amount with your date. Tacky.
Third, I HEART MiCocina and eat there religiously once a week and say a prayer of thanksgiving every time someone in the office says "You want to go to MiCocina?"
After many years of various southern friends I finally understand the Outward Churchy vs. Actual Churchy (I am from the NW where we are just Not Churchy, as a rule). Good call on that description! I wouldn't red flag the "pray for my meeting" comment unless he asks you again to pray for him about something. Then, now this is just me, RUN AWAY!
I think the $40 first-date thing was just nervous, funny conversation. If it is real, he may be a closet Frat Boy Lifer. Of course, you're not really dating him so WHY DO YOU CARE?? RIGHT?!
So I chuckled a little when I initially heard the “he told me I owed him $2." It’s a little tacky, but also kind of funny and cute.
You know I will go with weird on the praying, but also it’s kind of hilarious because I can picture your face while reading it.
The good news is he'll be really impressed with that big fucking cross in your living room.
My sister sent me this post, probably because you're asking for advice from Bible-belters and until recently, I lived among them. :) So here are my two cents, and these two cents are said in a loving, non-judgmental way.
In the Bible-belt everyone is religious, but just because he has a church that he claims, doesn't mean he attends it each Sunday nor that he follows all of their teachings. Often, that is the church his family went to and tradition states (unoficially of course) that you keep going to that church. So I wouldn't rule him out on that point. What I think it says is that he believes in God (a good thing in my book, because most people who believe in God act a little bit nicer because of belief that said God will smite their butts if they get too out of line) and that he values family (which indicates that he will be loyal to you if things progress).
Now about those rules. Was he really, truly joking? Or did you have to cough up two bucks? If he was joking, then fine, take it as a joke. If his buddies are harassing him about money spent on first dates though, it makes me wonder how many first dates he's been on. So many that his buddies have to set parameters for him? Or is that he hasn't been on one for so long that he didn't know what to do and so sought his buddies advise on the subject? I just don't know...:(
I wouldn't rule it out completely. My first date with my hubby was one of the worst dates I'd been on, but he ended up being the greatest guy ever once I got to know him.
Another way to interpret the $2 incident: he budgets his money. That's got to be a plus...right?
Good luck sorting it all out. :)
I wouldn't judge on religion slash churchiness. Just as non-churchies don't like to be judged, I don't think churchies should be either. Some of my fav peeps are churchies! And some are totally NOT.
I also wouldn't think too hard on the $40 thing. I find myself PRAYING (hee! PRAYING when I'm a NON-CHURCHIE!) that people don't take the 95% totally moronic comments I make seriously because I say some really DUMBASS SHIT sometimes. Because of that, I tend to be forgiving of other's dumbass shit comments.
1) As a fellow Yankee living in Texas, I agree that you really can't make a big deal out of the religion thing around here - they're a lot more, umm, obvious about it. Some of my favorite people in the area love them some Jesus :) Not that I don't, but I don't like to talk about it. Geez.
2) Was he being funny? I think it's funny - something How I Met Your Mother might discuss. If you like him, I'd offer him the $2. The Bro Code, right? Anyway, I don't think rules such as those are a problem.
All that said, if he has rules such as "I don't kiss my girlfriend laying down (but you are not my girlfriend)," then drop him! Trust me.
Ok, I am a yankee, as you know, and am also catholic. Requests for prayers and also over-use of "The Lord" in standard every day conversation totaly give me the heebs.This may be because of my mother though, who is fake-religious and sends out email prayer requests at the drop of the hat, that read something like "Please ask The Lord to shed light on whether or not I should travel to Mexico...."
Also- I don't remember who said it- but maybe he was testing your churchiness. It sounds likely.
I wouldn't necessarily be freaked out by the pray for me comment... I am a yankee, and catholic, but I find asking someone to pray to be kind of an intimate thing - not something I would expect from a person I didn't know pretty well or who wasn't related to me. BUT I wouldn't use that as a reason not to date someone. Now if he dropped by your place of work and asked you sit and pray with him before his meeting - that would freak me out.
I think the $40 thing was a mostly lame attempt at trying to be funny. It reminded me of a guy I went out with once who was pissed off that he missed seeing his car hit the 5,000 mile mark because we were talking. I thought it was kind of funny until I realized he wasn't kidding. (I probably should have jumped out of the car.)
I would assume the $40 thing was a lame attempt at a joke. It would NEVER occur to me that it was a real rule amongst his friends.
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