While I was going through the Great Dental Clusterfuck of Aught Nine, I had occasion to catch up on my shitty television. Including, OBV, Jon and Kate Plus Eight.
Most of you know that I've long been a fan of the show, for the same reason as most others, I suspect: schadenfreude. But obviously their current situation hits pretty close to home for me. I found the show and interviews with Jon and Kate to be sad, but not unwatchable, or overwhelmingly depressing.
It's probably no surprise that I relate intensely to Jon. Most blogs and news stories I've read have been critical of his demeanor, and the seemingly cavalier or even giddy reaction he's having to the situation. But I get it. I SO TOTALLY get it.
I've often compared being married to my ex-husband to being regularly flicked in the forehead, over and over, for years at a time. It's tolerable at first. A little annoying, but mostly funny. I mean, come on! It's just a forehead flick! Lighten up! Don't be so sensitive! But eventually the flicking starts to wear you down. It's not funny, or cute anymore. It's embarrassing, and humiliating, and degrading. You can't believe you're allowing yourself to be flicked regularly, but now the flicker feels entitled to it. You start to get flinchy. You're angry all of the time, thinking about the last flick, and dreading the next one. Every now and again, you start to flick back, even though flicking is not in your essential nature.
And then, one day? You're just Done Being Flicked. No more. You might roar "STOP!" or you might just quietly decide, but you know for a fact that, one way or another, you are Done Being Flicked. And when that day comes, you DO feel giddy. You're on cloud fucking nine, and you can't believe you didn't do it sooner.
While I feel sadness and sympathy for them both, by experience I can only relate to Jon. Kate is a flicker. Jon is Done Being Flicked. In her interviews, I see the same reactions that my ex-husband had: shock, numbness, hurt, confusion. What the HELL? That last flick wasn't even that BAD! Everyone flicks from time to time! You are acting like a crazy person! If only you had COMMUNICATED your lack of enthusiasm for the flicking!
Here's the thing: Most flickers know they flick. My ex-husband knows. Kate knows. You can see it in her face. She looks devastated, and he doesn't, because at this point, the flicker has not yet processed the situation the way the flickee has. The day I decided I was Done Being Flicked, I moved the weight of grieving our marriage from my shoulders, to his. I have no doubt that Jon has done his time emotionally, and I guess that's why I judge him less harshly than others seem to.
Uh, not that he isn't a raging pussy and general all-around Hot Mess, because he totally is. But who isn't. THE END.
PS-Remind me to ALSO grace you with my Deep Thoughts on that 16 and Pregnant show on MTV. OMFG.
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63 comments:
I totally love the flicking analogy.
My daughters are both obsessed with the 16 and Pregnant show on MTV. I have GOT to remember to watch it, especially if you are going to grace us with Deep Thoughts.
Hope you're feeling okay, you damn drug addict.
"Uh, not that he isn't a raging pussy and general all-around Hot Mess, because he totally is. But who isn't. THE END."
This just made me spit tea all over my desk.
I love your analogy.
I know they are a hot mess. But they are people who got caught up in the idea that this crazy life on a television show could provide for the eight kids they otherwise would probably not be able to provide for. I think, just maybe, each of us might have taken it.
It's too bad the video evidence didn't reveal to Kate that she is a flicker. Jon seems like a nice guy. I hope she realizes what went wrong. I hope they both find happiness. I hope that they are able to provide a good life for their children.
That? Is a great analogy. And I feel the same way about Jon and Kate. Have you read Gosselins Without Pity? Lordy.
Now *that* is such a perfect analogy for (some) marriages. It resonates.
absolutely. well written. so right on.
hope you are feeling better.
glad you are blogging again.
you are super funny, and a great writer.
This is a tremendously good analogy. I am sorry, of course, about the dental curse, but selfishly pleased it allowed us to get this entry!
hmmm...while i see what you're saying, I feel different. Not sure I want to get into it, but let's just say I have NO TOLERANCE for cheating. And Jon reminded me of my ex. I'll stop there because this would take all day otherwise.
Well, when you put it that way...
I don't actually follow the J&K+8 show, except what I hear on the radio, at work, on blogs... and you're right that most people are in Kate's camp. This is surprising to me, since what I know about Kate is that she's belittling to Jon, controlling of everything and maybe a little bit nuts. Now everyone's down on Jon for saying "ENOUGH!" While I don't understand the logistics of how you share custody of 8 kids, or how you can be a single parent of 8 kids, I don't think it's shocking that Jon is leaving.
well said. and now i get it. for those of us who have some flicking tendencies, it's a wake-up call. thanks
I love that. So effing true!
This is the most perfect analogy ever. E-V-E-R.
In my experience, it wasn't one big thing that broke up the marriage, it was the constant little things that bothered me, and that my ex made fun of me for being bothered about because, "It's no big deal."
When he didn't listen to my feelings and made me feel stupid for bringing it up: YEAH, IT WAS.
Also, I grieved and fretted and worried about that marriage for so long I effectively gave myself an ulcer, but after I finally told him I wanted out, I felt FANTASTIC.
This was such a good analogy for a marriage slowly going south...
I also agree about Kate knowing deep down that she was the "flicker." I think some flickers just think of it, to themselves, as, "I have a strong personality," or "I'm the dominant personality in this relationship, sure, but someone has to be!" or "Hey, opposites attract! So it's fine!" Until the other person runs screaming into the ocean to get away from the flicking.
Farrell-I want to make it CRYSTAL FUCKING CLEAR that there is no excuse for cheating, regardless of how you are treated. That's a totally separate issue.
DH-I agree, and also I think it's shitty that there's such a double standard for flickers. If a GUY flicks, he is abusive. If a WOMAN does it, she just "wears the pants" or at most is a bitch.
Ooh, well said!! That is a fantastic way to put it, and I completely agree. Sometimes ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
Your analogy is awesome and I realized that this is exactly what happened to me with my mother. She's a flicker. And I just got completely fed up. Thanks.
Great analogy. My ex husband was a flicker. Jackass.
Here here... I think anyone who is being "abused" feels the way Jon does/did. It is just that in our society it is generally man to woman not the other way around.
I totally feel for Jon and while I do not think cheating is a good way to handle it I think that some times the cheater is looking for a way out. Cheating was a way to get out for Jon, I think.
I have always though Kate was mean to the point of abusive at times esp. as the show progressed. They showed some clips from early on where it was actually quite tame. Where she and Jon were kind of cute in their back & forth but later it was hard for me to watch and I actually DID stop watching because I felt SO uncomfortable with it.
Mental abuse (and that is what it was) is so undercutting and hard to explain to people. I found it worse then the actual physical shit that happened to me - oh why yes I was in a relationship like yours/his. It is so hard to see the forest through the trees but when you come out on the other side you are like HOLY SHIT I made it through THAT?!
This is an amazing metaphor and I think you are totally spot-on. I do feel bad about the whole hot mess on both ends but I agree that Jon was definitely getting flicked and I'm glad he's done with that now. And I'm glad you're done with that now, too.
I hated watching their interviews on the couch. Kate would talk right over Jon or insult him every time he spoke. But if Jon tried to interject while Kate was speaking, she would berate him.
Here's my question: do you think that flickers are ALWAYS flickers? Do they seek out (subconsciously) a partner who will take the flicking? Or if they find the right partner, do you think it could be controlled?
Oh my, what a great analogy.
Glad you're better after dental hell week. I couldn't comment yesterday because I was too squeamish reading about it.
Hmm. I don't know. I think all flickers flick in their own way, and for their own unique reasons. And it's not like the flickees are blameless either. It takes two to tango.
And while I think everyone can find a partner who brings out the best (or worst) in them, I think flickers who continue to flick will ALWAYS have damaged relationships, whether it be romantic, familial, friendships, work, etc.
Without my glasses on the word flicker looks like fucker. Which also totally works in your brilliant analogy.
I don't think I'm a flicker but I'm pretty sure I'm a fucker. I like to fuck my husband on the forehead repeatedly to get his attention.
I, uh, am the flicker. I'm working on trying not to be and I'm lucky that the mister had his "stop fucking flicking moment" early enough in our relationship that I hadn't done too much damage.
But, yeah. Flicker.
That's one hell of an analogy.
love what you said and all the comments....
also, if what she did is emotional abuse ... what do you guys think is worse that or the cheating??
This was so insightful - I love the analogy - I feel like I understand what happened with them a bit more. That being said, I had to stop watching the show all tgoether this season...it was just too sad since I had watched from the first season. I just hope they can both be happy (although I doubt Kate ever will be)and that the kids don't suffer in all of this.
Oh, Jon and Kate, how I'm into that show too! And this whole marriage break-up thing... I just feel so sad for both of them. I think I identify with Kate more, because I raised twins myself and I KNOW that if I were forced to add 6 more to my family I would probably sound just like her. I mean, I hear her talk to Jon and I can SEE how the stress of the kids is making her snappy and impatient and shrill. (how do you spell shrill????) When my twins were little I FELT like she acts. I think I ACTED like she acts too, sometimes, but not to the degree she did. But add 6 more kids? Yeah, I thank GOD I didn't have to see what that would have done to me.
I don't think I'm a flicker in general, but when the twins were little I FELT soooo flicked CONSTANTLY by them that I got snappy and impatient with my husband. Meeting their needs was so insurmountable some days that I had no time/energy/reserves left for being kind to my husband. The twins needs were so constant and demanding that "being nice to each other" didn't even cross our minds. Sounds dramatic, but that's how it was a the time.
As they grew, I was able to snap out of it, and as I said, I'm not a flicker in general, but during that season of life I TOTALLY was.
I was rooting for Jon and Kate, hoping they'd work it out and was so sad when they didn't. I hope as her kids grow Kate too becomes a non-flicker, that the stress of the kids lessens enough that she has the energy to have a good relationship(s) with other adults.
Also, the flicking analogy is PERFECT!
I can be a flicker upon occasion. I think what makes the difference is self-awareness.
In the early days of the show, I watched a few episodes and chuckled, because their bickering was similar to the bickering in my marriage. I felt a kinship. Then there was that Christmas shopping episode where she humiliated him in the toy store and seemed so perplexed when he complained about it. I realized then that there was a critical difference between myself and Kate. She will never admit that she's in the wrong with the flicking. My flicking has decreased steadily throughout the years of my marriage and as soon as I realize I'm doing it, I apologize like hell. I want to stop flicking. That's the difference.
Also, I have better hair than Kate. And I'm much more fun and I don't give a crap if kids get dirty.
But, yeah, Jon...cheating? Just leave, man. Just leave.
I challenge anyone here who DOESN'T think they have better hair than Kate. Christ. The reverse mullet is never called for, really. It's definitely not the New Rachel, as she seems to think it is.
This post is brilliant!
I don't watch J&K+8, but the flicking analogy resonates with me. I dated at least one guy and had one friend who qualified as flickers. Both appeared to be totally puzzled when I broke off the relationship and friendship, but I have a hard time believing that either of them didn't realize at some level that they could be assholes, they just believed they had found someone who would let them keep being that way. Once I was done with them it was a load off and I also felt giddy to be free.
This is so clearly put and gave me a totally different perspective not just on J&K's marriage but on all KINDS of marriages.
It's also made me a little fretful, because I haven't seen the show and so I'm wondering if I might be a flicker.
this was so interesting to read, because while i didn't j&k+8 regularly, i DID watch the break up show, and it was... horrible. and sad. and awful. and i couldn't get past how RELIEVED jon seemed to be able to run away from his marriage and his life. the "i'm only 32" and the fact that he was "excited" to move on seemed sort of awful. BUT, put into this context, i can understand it SO much more, and i have no doubt that you've hit the nail on the head. i tend to do all my mental struggling / anguish at the end of a relationship right before i break up with someone too, so by the time i DO break up with them, i AM freaking relieved. i'd like to think i'd have a little more tact than to record those feelings of relief and glee on NATIONAL FUCKING TELEVISION, where my children will be able to see it one day, but i guess i understand where he's coming from more now.
Cool analogy. I think it explains why my kids drive me so insanely batty...individually, nothing they do/say is terribly annoying...but all day long? There's a reason Momma is drinking in the evening.
I don't think Kate has much of a chance at stopping the flicking...she obviously has done this to other people in the past. Like, where are her parents? Estranged. Where are her college/high school friends or even the friend that helped her so much in the early episodes? Mostly estranged. Her brother (that was her neighbor at the old house) even said they have stopped speaking...and they used to be quite close. She seems to ruin relationships all around her and always has. I just wonder what will happen when her kids start turning out like Jon (or herself) as teenagers and young adults and actually stand up for themselves and have different opinions than her. Will she be estranged from them as well?
I still remember watching The Soup about a year ago...Joel McHale showed a clip of Kate ripping Jon a new one. Then he showed a picture of Jon on a jet ski and said, "Tune in next season for Jon minus 9". I laughed so hard...and now it has become prophetic.
Totally cracking up at the thought of Swistle as a flicker. Ha! HAHA! (no)
IMHO, if you are questioning whether or not you might be a flicker, probably you are NOT one. Flickers tend to know their status, because, as with Kate, it comes up again and again in every important relationship in their lives.
Flicker analogy: PERFECT.
I never really watched J&K, not having the necessary broadcast resources (i.e. the show wasn't on Fox), but I TOTALLY know couples that consist of flickers and flick-ees (flicked upons?) In fact, one of my friends (a flicker) was going through a bad patch in her marriage and I kept wanting to gently suggest "maybe if you weren't so damn BOSSY, you guys wouldn't be having these problems." However, I lacked both the cahones to say this and the diplomacy to say it so that she could hear it.
I didn't really watch the show, at least not with any regularity, but I knew about it. I didn't really like Kate, ever. I thought she was mean to Jon and controlling.
This was brilliant. And also made me very concerned that I'm a flicker. Will have to work on that.
I had to quit watching Jon and Kate too, because it stressed me out the extent to which money, paying for eight kids, how to support their family, was influencing their lives. At some point it's just not worth it.
Perfect analogy from a fellow Flickee. Glad you're finding time to spend with someone who treats you well. :)
I have never seen J&K+8 and I would like them the hell off my People magazine already.
Just sayin'.
Also, OMG, I flick my son. (And please GOD, let Petunia Face be wearing her glasses because I most assuredly do not fuck him.) This is upsetting me in the extreme and my self-argument that he is just so damn flickable ... there is so much that needs flicking ... I flick because I love ... not working.
GAH.
I loved that analogy.
Watching John say he was "excited" about the divorce really irritated me. Looking at it this way though clarified it.
Kate is definately a flicker.
With regard to the question is the flicking worse or the cheating worse, first let me confess that I have never watched J&K+8 but I have read a lot about them in People magazine and on Huffington Post, and I watched a video on YouTube of Kate talking on a couch.
Given that vast breadth and depth of knowledge about their situation and their personalities, I gotta say – the flicking (i.e. emotional/mental abuse) is worse than cheating, mainly because it's probably the cause of the cheating, or at least a big frickin factor.
This opinion coming to you from someone emerging from an abusive relationship (I never cheated though, but maybe if I had I'd have been more mentally healthy).
Also, her hair really bugs the sh*t out of me. I saw someone with that haircut in the parking lot of BB&B today and instantly took agin her just for her snippy obnoxious haircut.
Tess, totally agree with you. I was married to a flicker and MORE.
He seriously thought that Dutch Ovens were funny. And then he would want to have sex afterwards. And it wasnt an every once in a while too. And this was a GOOD point about him.
As for cheating. I only watched the last show. But I thought I heard that she cheated too.
Just popping back to say I have been thinking about this ALL DAY. I think you have hit upon some MAJOR INSIGHT here, and that you need to follow up with more posts about flicking.
I'm with Swistle - this post inspired some pretty serious introspection on my part. Some of it was pretty uncomfortable which suggests it was also pretty necessary. Please, more posts about the flicking.
Deep, man. DEEP.
I was a flickee in a past relationship. I spent years trying to figure out what was wrong with me that I was so miserable and not strong enough to take his shit when really his shit was the problem THE END.
And yeah, when I left him, he was so BEWILDERED and SAD and CONFUSED and I was just tired and RELIEVED and DONE. Just like Jon (minus the hair plugs. And the mistress. And, you know, the penis. But STILL. Just like him.)
This is a great post. Most of the coverage that I've seen is mostly really critical of Kate and all like, 'She pushed him to it'.
Although I can certainly also relate to the feelings that you talked about here.
I loved the line about transferring the grieving the relationship from your shoulders to his. I had that exact same experience with The Tool I dated before I met my husband.
After we broke up, I felt LIBERATED. You know, from no more flicking, EVAR.
Do you know, I am back AGAIN? Not only to read the comments, but to see if there is any new post on flicking or flicking-related topics.
I'm back again, too. The comments are so interesting. And educational. Re: Melissa's comment, I was all, "What's so funny about cast-iron cookware? And why did she care?" Thanks to Google, I now understand.
I have to agree with the sentiments of the other posters that this was a great analogy. We've talked about Jon & Kate here at the office and I've not been as articulate as I want to be about how I feel about their situation. I do think she has treated him horribly, but I feel bad for her in the situation and feel myself wishing he would give her a chance to make it up to him/work on the relationship (I know it is ridiculous that I'm speaking about them like they are my friends or something...). But, after reading this I think I understand what Jon might be going through a little better.
I read this and thought what a great way to put what I go thru everyday. My husband is a flicker and I haven't reached the end of my rope yet but I'm getting closer. I'm sure just like your ex and Kate, my husband will sit and wonder what went wrong. "I treated her great what is her problem???" Cause you know what....it's always "MY" problem.
A friend referred me to this blog and I'm so glad she did.
Do you like "Everybody Loves Raymond"? He used the flick analogy to try to deter his wife, Debra, from wanting to buy the house across the street from his parents. Interesting. The Barones were Flickers as well.
I, too, agree that Jon is a giant pussy.
Good grief, I skip checking your blog for new posts for a few days, and all heck breaks loose, with the philosophy and deep shit!
I lived with a flicker (flickah!) for four years. And yes, exact same thing. I was so relieved and happy, and he was so shocked and "why didn't you TELL me?" Dude. I totally told you. You were too busy flicking. (And whining, but that's another issue.)
But I still, I don't know, I dont have a lot of sympathy for either of them, honestly. I don't agree that any old parent of multiples would have taken that show deal, and I think they are both pretty reprehensible people, and I feel sorry for their children. But! I don't watch the show. "Reality" shows (and esPECIALLY the faux-real couch interview type segments) drive me insane.
This analogy is spot on...and funny!
I've been watching that stupid 16 and Pregnant too, so I'll be checking back here for your deep thoughts about it!
Tess: Okay, got it. Thanks. Just checking.!
This is fantastic. I divorced last year, and I think you put into words exactly what I've been trying to explain to people, when they ask, what went wrong. One day I was just Done. Finished. DONE. Nothing was going to change my mind. And sure, it was hard as hell, but you know what? It sure is nice not being flicked anymore.
God I love this post!
"Farrell-I want to make it CRYSTAL FUCKING CLEAR that there is no excuse for cheating, regardless of how you are treated. That's a totally separate issue."
It's not though because I think that's where a lot of Kate's hurt comes from. It's not separate but related. Do I think her Flicking contributed? Yup. Someone who won't flick looks a hell of a lot more appealing than someone who flicks. So I get what you are saying. I just think that part of her hurt is related to his cheating. IMHO, you can't separate the two!
Oh sure. Totally get that. I don't doubt it.
I meant that the cheating is a totally separate issue TO ME, and that being a flickee does not excuse bad behavior of any kind, whether it be cheating, flicking back, etc.
I'm brand new to your blog, this was the first entry I ever read, and I really enjoyed it! A LAWT.
So, I guess I'm going to be the first one to put this out there in your comments, but I'm not sure I buy into the truth of Jon cheating. Are there facts, an admission by Jon? If so, I missed them so I might be talking out of my ass here, but seriously, does everyone believe what they read/see in the tabloids? He said himself on the show that he knows he will very possibly be Googled by his kids someday in the future, so he has to be careful of what he does. He admitted ONLY to making the bad decision of going out to the bars late at night.
Now I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday, if he's going out to bars, it would seem obvious TO SOME that this is the precursor to cheating. Or along the same lines. Maybe he did cheat. But knowing the paparozzi is hounding him as they are and being as devoted to his kids' well-being as he is, I don't think he's dumb enough to cheat and think he won't get found out. That's just my take. I'm just sayin' that we shouldn't be so quick to assume US Weekly has the facts straight.
AND ANOTHER THING, Photoshop is a mighty powerful program. I use it every day in my graphic/web design career, and a person can do some damn amazing things with it. Don't believe the pictures you see, people!
I consider People Mag to be the only reputable celeb news magazine out there, and I haven't seen a confirmation or admission in there about Jon cheating. Just because some chick's drug-addict-needs-money-real-bad brother says he saw Jon banging his sister, doesn't make it true.
Kate is most assuredly a flicker, and is definitely puzzled by Jon's "sudden" intolerance of it. I have to also hold the fire to his butt for the fact that he knew she was a flicker from day one, married her anyway, and had 8 kids with her, AND renewed his vows with her just a short time ago. That's a whole other comment (that Hawaii trip was a total selfish farce on both their parts). Her being a flicker didn't just HAPPEN one day, he signed on for this, so he needs to lay in the bed he made. Counseling, a lobotomy, or therapy should have been aggressively sought out. We're talking EIGHT kids here and yes, a HOT MESS. You don't just decide one morning that you don't like a trait your spouse has ALWAYS had and walk away.
I'm sure a flickee does not have the self-confidence (what, with all the flicking) to stand up and shout intolerance and demand change, but by voicing the alternative and seeking out therapy the flickee just might learn a way to get the other person to agree to counseling. Seems to me, if Jon had offered Kate the ultimatum of "we get therapy for your flicking or I'm outta here" she would have tried the therapy.
I think the cheating (if there really was cheating on Jon's part)was a passive aggressive response to Kate's flicking (and I really like that analogy). Basically, "You keep flicking me, but instead of confronting you about it, I'm going to go be intimate with someone who doesn't flick me...heeeey, this feels GOOD!" I think flickers do tend to seek people who will put up with their flicking. And people who will put up with flicking tend to seek out people with the personality traits that lead to flicking. I tend to be the flickee in relationships, and I have come to the conclusion that I am attracted to "intense" people, people who are opinionated and expressive, and some of those people tend to be flickers. Sometimes, I think the flick because they're uncomfortable with how laid back I am and they want to get a rise out of me.
OMG! Epiphany - MY EX-H WAS A FLICKER - not often, but it got worse over our 25 year marriage. When he left me for another woman, I was RELIEVED and didn't fully understand why. Now I do!!! Thanks!
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